Posts by Cold Steel

13

Memorial observance screwery.

by Darkknight757 in

had a thought about the memorial observance that is held at the kingdumb hall every year.

there are a few youtube videos of people partaking of the bread and the wine and then making some grand speech before being escorted off the premises.

instead of that, has anyone tried getting a group of buddies together and when receiving the bread or the wine, just eat or drink it all?

Cold Steel

The JW website actually invites guests to attend the memorial and leaves the impression that they can participate. Then when they come, they can't partake? Is some kind of an announcement made?

This is one of the strangest doctrines I've seen in the faith. If one quietly partakes, what happens? Do people watch to see who's partaking while it's going on? If I went, would anyone make any attempt to stop me?

Or, if I were part of the flock, what do people think? I'm holy? Crazy? If I'm a faithful JW, do all my pioneer work, study and gain respect in the congregation and take it quietly and humbly, am I afforded more respect than others (If they believe I'm legit)?

If became a JW, I'd sure go with the anointed class. Can anyone even envision living in a terrestrial environment for a trillion years? Or two trillion? I'd much rather have the resurrection that would allow me to traverse the universe and be like God Himself. (As John said, "we shall be like [God], for we shall see Him as He is." --John 3:2)

78

A stunning piece of LOGIC from the Apostle Paul

by nicolaou in

1st corinthians 15 12-17. but if it is preached that christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead?

if there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even christ has been raised.

and if christ has not been raised, your faith is futile... .

Cold Steel

Fisherman » Proof is about the present. Faith is about the future. Let's say for example that a person prayed to God for solid proof and that person got that proof to his or her satisfaction. ... without solid proof, faith crumbles. At least for me; I need solid evidence of something in action that I can observe; and based on my present observations, I can predict future actions of that something, but only if that something proves to be faithful in the future -a chance I have to take. That chance is faith.

Proof does not provide long term motivation: that can come only from the Spirit of God. "If any man lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who giveth to all men liberally and upbraideth not, and it shall be given him." (James 1:5) When man initially meets God or sees an angel, they fear what they're experiencing. The light, the glory, standing above the floor. These are supernatural. The person is weak, drained by the experience. But as time passes, it becomes less frightning. You gain power and confidence. But God does not just come to people until they show faith. Not only in expectation but in action. Why did Jesus reveal Himself to Paul and not others who were enemies of Christ? Why not the Emperor Nero? And why did He reveal Himself to others? (He certainly has not shown Himself to me.) There's always a method and a purpose. Paul was foreordained as was Jeremiah (Jeremiah 1:5). Nero wasn't.

By faith, one may find proof, but it comes after you've proven yourself. Faith comes first, confirmation later.

78

A stunning piece of LOGIC from the Apostle Paul

by nicolaou in

1st corinthians 15 12-17. but if it is preached that christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead?

if there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even christ has been raised.

and if christ has not been raised, your faith is futile... .

Cold Steel

NeverAJW »
1. goes to heaven...yeah right
2. never came back.

How do you He never came back?

You're making a huge asumption.

After Jesus ascended to the Father, He returned and spent 40 days (allegedly) with his disciples (Acts 1), who witnessed the event. Most of them were later brutally murdered rather than renounce their testimonies. You may not be a Christian. You may not believe in the resurrection. Fine. People can believe or not believe.

But in discussing resurrection, first, how does one define it? And why does it fascinate atheists and non-Christians? Some religions believe in reincarnation, which is an idea that scares the Hell out of me (I ain't coming back!). But it's the physical resurrection that seems to bother people. Jesus didn't seem to be in hiding. He walked the same roads and many people saw Him, conversed with him and arrested to it. And, as I said, they gave their lives to seal their testimonies.

15

Where Can One Get Answers To Questions From JWs?

by Cold Steel in

there's also a fellow who calls himself the "watchman," but he seems as critical as many of the so-called "apostates.

" is there a place where one can ask questions from knowledgeable believers or "a" believer?

i really don't want to take the bible lessons.

Cold Steel

Thanks for your replies. The reason I wanted to ask believers is because they'd give me answers not laced with resentment or colored by their own negative experiences. These questions have nothing to do with my own beliefs, but everything to do with ecclesiastical authority. While reading some of the Watchtowers on JW.org, the writers cited Daniel 2 and the some that broke the statue.

The magazines also condemned other religions, calling them manmade. The truth to the weary traveler who's lost his way comes from the helpful person (WTS) who shows the traveler a map (Bible), shows him the way, then gives him the map so he can refer to it in his travels.

The roots of the WTS go back to Adventism and William Miller. I'm not really concerned whether their predictions are true or not, what the Watchtower states indicates the Society is the ecclesiastical continuation of the first century church.

My question simply centers on how the Organization received this authority and if I were an investigator, how I could be certain it was the stone? Most ex-JWs would probably admit the authority was assumed, but only a believer could tell me what's going on in his/her mind regarding the organization's legitimacy.

Regarging my own beliefs, I've never made them a part of my arguments on this forum. If you want to debate the merits of Mormonism, there's an excellent and existing website for that.

Catholics and the Orthodox claim an uninterrupted chain of authority from the first century church. If the WTS now has that authority, how did it get it? And if I started a church with the same basic beliefs with some much needed tweaks, and if I called God Jehovah, used the King James bible with "Jehovah" inserted where "Lord" is, sent members door to door, would my church be as legitimate as theirs? What if I said Jehovah came down and chose my religion over theirs? How would their church be more legitimate than mine? These are legitimate questions that ex-members might not be inclined to answer.

But go to it!

98

Beards - September 2016 Watchtower

by Listener in

the issue of whether beards are acceptable or not is addressed in the september 2016 watchtower - well sort of.

it is as clear as mud as to whether they are allowed in places like australia, usa and britain.. 17. what are some factors that may affect whether a brother wears a beard?17 what about the propriety of brothers wearing a beard?

the mosaic law required men to wear a beard.

Cold Steel

Has it never occurred to these guys that was was "in" in the first century might not be acceptable now and vice versa? Also, is it possible that Paul was starting an opinion and not doctrine? I can understand why he may not want the boys and girls appearing the same, things like beards might be cross-cultural? Would anyone really get in trouble wearing a neatly trimmed beard?

I can see a guy with a beard standing before St. Peter and being damned for wearing a beard. That would be rich! A guy with a beard condemning a guy with a beard for wearing a beard! "Oh, my," says Peter. "This is gonna be a problem."

"Why?" says Michael. "Just throw him into the outer...ummm...."

"Darkness," Peter says.

"Yeah, whatever."

"Okay, but that's gonna change the tally."

"So?" says Michael.

"Alrighty," Peter says. "That'll be 143,999 anointed and...."

"Wait!" says Michael.

16

Shunning ? did JEHOVAH shun Satan ?

by smiddy in

i don`t know if this has been addressed before , however it appears there is an inconsistency and a big one at that with the practice of shunning with jw`s.

elders / ministerial servants look out for the spiritual health of the congregation , and if they see something they feel is detrimental to the spiritual health of the congregation they are going to act to rectify it, .

they take appropiate action where they think is necessary .

Cold Steel

OKAY, I'M GOING TO PLAY DEVIL'S ADVOCATE HERE.

Assuming Yahweh is the Father and not the Son...which I believe is untrue.

Jehovah, thru shunning, is trying to 1) get the guilty to repent by being ostracized by family and loved ones, and 2) protect the flock from sin. Neither aspect is applicable to him, personally, as 1) Satan is incapable of repenting or being forgiven, and 2) God can't be tempted, neither can he fall.

These being the case, neither side can gain or lose.

17

If Jehovah is our 'father', he would want humankind to independently govern itself

by fukitol in

all parents want their children to grow up, mature, and become happily independent.

no normal father or parent would ever want to govern and rule over their children forever.. so if jehovah exists and he is a heavenly 'father' to his human progeny, and if we truly are in his image as his children, then humankind was always destined to govern itself.

if you believe in the biblical narrative, jehovah always intended to let go of his human children and let us rule ourselves when we were ready.

Cold Steel

Fukitol » All parents want their children to grow up, mature, and become happily independent. No normal father or parent would ever want to govern and rule over their children forever. So if Jehovah exists and he is a heavenly 'Father' to his human progeny, and if we truly are in his image as his children, then humankind was always destined to govern itself. If you believe in the Biblical narrative, Jehovah always intended to let go of his human children and let us rule ourselves when we were ready. This was as naturally a part of God's purpose as it is natural for all living beings to let go of their matured offspring.

This is essentially an issue of context.

First, what if we're not mature? What if, instead of being grown up, mature, we're still in the 9-year old category?

Many Christians don't hold to the notion that Jehovah is the Father, but rather, the Son. When Adam fell, man no longer could communicate directly with the Father (El, Eloah), but required a mediator, and that mediator was Yahweh, Jehovah, the great I AM. Not the Father, but the Son. Thus, when Jesus told the Jews, "...before Abraham was, I AM," they went out of their minds with rage and attempted to stone Him.

Yahweh also comes to judge both men and nations in the Old Testament, yet John, in the New, states that "the Father judges no man, but has committed all judgment to the Son." (John 5:22)

In an age today where there's an abundance of information, man has grown no wiser. We murder today much more efficiently, yet showing not a bit more wisdom than our ancestors did three thousand years ago. If we strictly held to God's commandments, based our laws on just the moral teachings we've been given, our governance would result in righteous societies all over the earth. But that hasn't happened. If anything, we've shown a complete tendency to self destruct, even to the point that if God didn't step in to cut things short that we would eradicate ourselves.

God has given us free agency, but He has to balance it against the rights and well being of others. When we about babies by the millions, we balance our free agency against the lives of others who deserve a time and place of their own. We rob them at the expense of our own convenience and well being. To further understand why we aren't left to govern ourselves, we must understand the reason why we're here. It's strange that in the Bible, no reason is ever given for man's existence. We read in Jeremiah 1:5 that Yahweh "knew," "ordained," and "sanctified" Jeremiah as a "prophet" to the nations. So He obviously knew that there would be nations and prophets well before Jeremiah was born. He also undoubtedly knew this before the fall of man.

Even during the Millennium, the thousand-year reign of peace, man's self-governance is unclear. At the end of this time, we read of a recurrence of the battle of Gog and Magog. When Satan is loosed in that day, he will find ample followers:

And when the thousand years are finished, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, and shall come forth to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to the war: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. And they went up over the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down out of heaven, and devoured them. (Revelation 20:7-9 — ASV)

Think that for hundreds of years, Christ had ruled the earth in righteousness. Total peace on the planet had been achieved, even among the animals. No one went hungry or lacked in anything, yet when Satan was freed to spread his discontent, he wins over a large following, "the number of whom is as the sand of the sea." Instead of an assault on the old city as had occurred in Ezekiel 37-38, this new assault will be on the "beloved city." This may be another reference to old Jerusalem or it may refer to the New Jerusalem, which will then be on the earth. Unlike the first Gog/Magog, this war will end quickly and with no need to burn either bodies or weapons.

So what makes anyone think man is ready or able to govern himself, especially anyone who's seen the debates for the U.S. Presidential elections?

15

Where Can One Get Answers To Questions From JWs?

by Cold Steel in

there's also a fellow who calls himself the "watchman," but he seems as critical as many of the so-called "apostates.

" is there a place where one can ask questions from knowledgeable believers or "a" believer?

i really don't want to take the bible lessons.

Cold Steel

I've tried JW.org. There's also a fellow who calls himself the "Watchman," but he seems as critical as many of the so-called "apostates." Is there a place where one can ask questions from knowledgeable believers or "a" believer? Or does someone know someone who does it? I really don't want to take the Bible Lessons. I'm just interested in an occasional answer to a question by someone who knows what they're talking about and can add some discussion.

Thanks!

19

Who has the authority to decern what the bible really teaches?

by TTWSYF in

so i ask because of all the books, mags and testimonies that the wts promotes.

not only the wts, but many other christians attempt to speak about the bible with authority.

how do we measure who is an authority if we don't know that much?.

Cold Steel

Hernandez » I say this as an Ex-JW who has become Catholic, so people of other convictions--religious and non-religious--are likely to have different views. But I can at least share the Catholic view: In the end, you have the authority and ability to discern for yourself what God is telling you through the pages of the Bible.

Hmmmm. One certainly has the authority to believe what one wishes, but as far as the authority to interpret scriptures, it must be done by revelation through the Holy Spirit. "If any man lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who giveth to all men liberally and ubraideth not, and it shall be given him." (James 1:5). And Matthew speaks of Jesus' warning regarding blind leaders. Without light, they seek to lead others who are blind, in which case both fall into the pit and perish. (Matthew 15:14)

Catholicism and Orthodoxy both depend on two elements: Scripture and Tradition. If scripture cannot interpret itself, then it falls upon tradition, usually in the way of the early patristic fathers. If these don't do the job, one must seek guidance from God. I would not recommend trying to interpret it yourself.

One problem is Isaiah 52-53, beginning with the last several verses of Isaiah 52. I say that because many Jews interpret the following chapter as the kingdom of Israel. Christians, however, rightfully interpret it as pertaining to the Messiah, his suffering and ministry. Muslims interpret Isaiah 29 as pertaining to the Qur'an, while latter-day saints believe it points to the coming forth of the Book of Mormon.

Another problem is literacy. When Jesus blessed the bread and wine, he said, "This is my body...this is my blood." Catholics see this as literal, while most other Christians see it as metaphor. In a time when miracles had ceased, the church needed something it could point to that was a living miracle, every week. Transubstantiation was just the ticket. It was like the invisible return of Christ in 1914 and the fastest gun in the West ("Wanna see it again?") Great events in our day...they're just invisible. But when Christ said, "Oh, Jerusalem...How oft would I have gathered thee under my feathers," I sincerely doubt he actually had feathers or wings. It was metaphor.

So these are problems with interpreting scripture yourself. Seeking spiritual guidance is the way to go in my view. In the case of the Jehovah's Witnesses, they, being without light, are superlative examples of blind guides leading the blind. The entire Adventist movement is a string of failed prophecies fractioning off into others sects that also experienced failed prophesies.

24

BEARE OF INDEPENDANCE - Leaked Talk On My YouTube Channel

by pale.emperor in

brother melvin mallett delivers a talk entitled beware the spirit of independence.

(because, you know, thinking for yourself is not what jesus wants.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7znpzkakaki.

oh, and remember folks... this isnt a cult or anything!.

Cold Steel

This is the problem with this website. It's too independent. If you let people think on their own, they might read whatever Bible version they want, and that could lead to all sorts of evils. How could you guys make any sense out of the Organization's magazines which are inspired of God (but not as inspired as the scriptures, which is a position I've never understood -- either something's inspired or it isn't...how can Jehovah inspire one more another?)

The Society is very careful to keep its members on a short leash. It condemns the Roman church for withholding the scriptures from people and burning those who tried to read the scriptures on their own, yet it achieves similar control on people by publishing a substandard Bible and quoting only it in its required reading supplements. And if I question, say, the state of the dead in my own church, it turns into a discussion. Apparently, if you question it in a class in the Kingdom Hall, it can turn into being dragged in front of a body of elders!

So much for independence!